The Hospice Conversations That Defined 2025 - Best of TCNtalks

A Year of Insight, Impact, and Leadership in Hospice & Palliative Care.  As 2025 comes to a close, we pause to say thank you—to our listeners, leaders, clinicians, and partners who make this work meaningful. This special Christmas Eve episode is our gift back to you: a highlight reel of the most impactful, downloaded, and talked-about TCNtalks episodes of the year.

With nearly 45,000 total downloads across TCNtalks and Anatomy of Leadership, this milestone reflects a shared commitment to thoughtful leadership, courageous conversations, and care as it should be. We’ve curated standout moments from episodes that challenged assumptions, clarified complexity, and pointed toward a better future for serious-illness care.

🎧 Why This Episode Matters

This highlight episode isn’t just a recap—it’s a reflection of where hospice and serious-illness care has been, where it is, and where it must go next. These conversations underscore the urgency of leadership rooted in clarity, compassion, and courage.

Whether you’re revisiting a favorite or discovering an episode you missed, we hope this collection sparks insight, conversation, and renewed purpose as we head into 2026.


Top Episodes Featured


The Healing of America
Guest: T.R. Reid, Author of the NY Times Best Selling book The Healing of America

A powerful exploration of what the U.S. healthcare system can learn from global models. Reid shares firsthand experiences and data that reveal why covering everyone improves outcomes and lowers costs—and why healthcare reform is no longer optional.

Key Themes:

Universal coverage and outcomes
Cost transparency
Healthcare as a moral imperative
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The Healthcare Customer of the Future
Guest: Marcus R. Escobedo, Vice-President of Communications and a
Senior Program Officer at The John A. Hartford Foundation

A deeply human conversation on aging, family caregivers, and the realities of an age-diverse America. This episode introduced many listeners to the 4Ms Framework and reframed how we talk about older adults.

Key Themes:

Ageism and language
Family caregivers
Preparing for an aging population
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No BS Marketing
Guest: Dave Mastovich, CEO and Founder of MASSolutions

A fan favorite that demystified marketing for healthcare leaders. Dave reframes marketing as a leadership and effectiveness function, not a tactical afterthought—and challenges organizations to trade jargon for authenticity.

Key Themes:

Marketing vs. sales
Brand storytelling
Authentic communication
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A Strategic Path Forward for Hospice & Palliative Care
Guest: Dr. Ira Byock, A leading Palliative Care physician, author, and public
advocate for improving care through the end of life

A candid and courageous deep dive into the current inflection point facing hospice and palliative care. Dr. Byock calls the field to reclaim its moral center while confronting corporatization, complacency, and courage.

Key Themes:

Mission vs. margin
Quality and accountability
Reclaiming purpose in care
---------------------

The Complexity of Multi-Service Organizations
Guests:
Rebecca Ramsay, Chief Executive Officer of Housecall Providers

Mark Jarman-Howe,  Chief Executive of St Helena Hospice, based in Colchester, England

A forward-looking discussion on leading increasingly complex care organizations. As hospice leaders expand into palliative care, home-based primary care, and community services, this episode explores culture, risk, and resilience.

Teleios Collaborative Network   /   https://www.teleioscn.org/tcntalkspodcast

Transcript

Holiday Intro And Listener Thanks

Melody King 0:00

Welcome to TCN Talks. The goal of our podcast is to provide concise and relevant information for busy hospice and palliative care leaders and staff. We understand your busy schedules and believe that brevity signals respect. And now, here's our host, Chris Comeaux.

Why A Year-End Highlight Reel

TR Reid On Universal Coverage And Costs

U.S. Outcomes, Incentives, And Billing Bloat

Chris Comeaux 0:23

Hello and welcome to TCN Talks. First off, I just want to wish you and your many families Merry Christmas, happy holidays. I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. This show is airing on Christmas Eve, and this is we wanted to do a different show, kind of a gift for you back for this full year together. First off, I want to thank you, our listeners. You've made this one of the most successful podcasts in the country in the hospice and powder space. And this is because of you, our listeners. We work really hard, Jeff Haffner, our executive producer, and I, each week trying to provide relevant content, stuff that helps you just know what's coming, things that are around the bin, or just things that will help you do your job better. Because this work of hospice, powd of care, the whole serious illness space is hard work. And we just want to be value-added for you. And thank you for letting us know we're at least hitting the mark most of the time via your feedback and, of course, the number of downloads that we've seen this year. We're actually going to hit about 45,000 downloads total from both of our podcasts, TCN Talks, Anatomy of Leadership. And we couldn't do that if it wasn't for you, our listeners. So today's show was kind of a gift for you. Um, we had a lot of shows this year, and so of course they're 52 weeks in a year, and so we're doing the top of in the last two weeks, but that's 50 shows throughout the rest of the year, 25 for TCN Talks and 25 for the Anatomy of Leadership. And so we're gonna do a highlight reel of some of the most impactful shows. Some of them are shows maybe that you missed, some of them were my absolute favorite shows, and some of them were your favorite shows just based upon the number of hits. And so the first one is The Healing of America with T.R. Reed. He's an amazing writer, Arthur, longtime journalist. And he wrote this book a while back about how to transform the American healthcare system. It was one that I really wanted to do for a long time. I read his book on the actual recommendation of a good friend. It really is a roadmap of how you could fix healthcare in America. And as we go into 26, I have a feeling that's going to come more and more a conversation. The next one was the healthcare customer of the future, Marcus Escobedo with the John A. Hartford Foundation. He's an incredible person. And the work that John A. Hartford Foundation is doing to help us prepare for being age-friendly throughout America. And it's the first time I really understood the 4M's framework that then led to further shows throughout the rest of this year. We also had Dave Mastovich for No BS Marketing. And so for Is is a G-rated show. So we'll leave it at No BS Marketing. But it is one of the areas as a longtime leader, now 30 years in hospice and powdered care. Marketing has always felt like a bit of a black box to me. And meeting Dave and the work that he does, he's a professional marketer, and they do marketing in a lot of different segments in America, not just hospice, not just healthcare, but in many aspects. And Dave was one of the first people that broke it down to me. I'm like, I get it now. I love that show. I've gone back and listened to myself about two or three times. The next is a strategic path forward for hospice and powdered care with Dr. Ira Bayakley with Court Castor and I as a gift back to all of our um loose listeners. But this was the first one where he and I did a deep dive on his strategic path forward that was written out of his passion to make sure that the hospice and powder care field thrives into the future. And he feels like we're at an inflection point. So that was a great show. The next was the complexity of multi-service organizations. I had envisioned this show for quite a while. And then I had Rebecca Ramsey on earlier this year talking about home-based primary care. Well, I invited Rebecca back along with Mark German Howe, who actually uh was the CEO of an organization in St. Helena, UK. So providing hospice in the UK. And the reason why I've been thinking about that show is in our future as hospice and powdered care leaders, being a monofocused hospice is going to be probably less and less. It's going to be more complex organizations, maybe providing hospice, powdered care, maybe home-based primary care. And the more service lines you add, the more complexity it brings from leadership on a day-to-day basis. So I really love that show. I learned a lot from it. I'm doing it with them. And then one of the last ones in this highlight reel is transforming healthcare with Rita Numeroff. And it's a good book into that TR read. Um, Rita is just a phenomenal teacher writer. She writes for Forbes. She's written multiple books. And I am praying next year that she might actually be sitting on the health panel that's being convened in DC about what do we do about this train wreck that's coming in healthcare? And I literally said, Rita, if RFK called you and said, How would you fix this thing? What would you say? And that was that podcast. So please enjoy this highlight reel. And again, we so appreciate you always listening to TCN Talks.

Reframing Aging And The 4Ms

T.R. Reid 5:02

Sometimes the insurance company found an excuse not to pay. Anyway, we then moved to Japan when Willa was five years old. And sure enough, two weeks in, Willow woke up with an earache. We didn't know what to do, so we went to the nearest pediatrician, and the doctor in Japan looked in her ear. She said, Oh, she has an ear infection. She said, I think I'll give her a penicillin shot. She gave her penicillin shot, Willa got better, and guess what? This cost 1,500 yen, $14. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, how can they give me the same care, effective care, kind doctor, for a tenth of what I paid in the United States? They cover everybody, they have better health outcomes, longer life expectancy, better recovery rates from disease or injury, and they spend about half as much as we do. A key point of my book, the key lesson for any successful healthcare system is you gotta cover everybody. Everybody has a right to health care. When people are sick, get 'em into the doctor and treat them. Um a woman shows up in the emergency room, nine months pregnant, seven sentence dilated, ready to give birth, and she has never seen a doctor. Because lots of young women in the United States have no health insurance. And guess what? Those are the babies we lose. Those are the mothers we lose. The United States race last twenty-third in keeping babies alive until their first birthday. Can you believe that? I mean, with all our expertise, with all our skill, and it's not because we don't know how to care for these sick babies, it's because we don't provide the care. So it it does perhaps it seems counterintuitive, but if you cover everybody, you save money. Americans hate socialized medicine except they love it when they get it. You hope to get it to one of the free hospitals or a free clinic and hope to get care, and quite often those people don't. People the the life expectancy for a man in America today is about seventy-eight. For people without health insurance, it's fifty-six. They lose twenty years of life because we're not providing them care.

Chris Comeaux 7:24

And it one of the best articles, Dr. Neil Shaw wrote an article, and the gist was is you know, horrible that someone would get assassinated. It is fascinating that half the country is reacting in the way they do be and healthcare is perverse that way. It's not really about making people better. The more bad stuff that happens, then the more money that you make.

T.R. Reid 7:47

The way you make a profit in healthcare is by not paying bills. This is why they have narrow networks, this is why they have to approve your procedure in advance. One day, uh we board members were out there and they opened a six-story, a big six-story building, brand new, beautiful building. We clipped the ribbon. I was sipping wine, and I said to the dean in the medical school, uh, what are we going to treat in this building? He said, Treat? We're not treating anybody here. This is the billing office. It's 75 people are there just to dig through the different insurance plans and figure out what we're going to be paid in the doctor's office. I saw an MRI machine. And I said to him, hey, uh, I went, if I had to get an MRI at the back of my neck, what would it cost? And he looks in his book and he says, Well, that would be uh each my n that's uh $98. $98. I just paid $1,800. In the United States, we have no ceiling, people can buy anything they want, and we have no floor. As I said, 30 and a half million Americans have no insurance at all.

Chris Comeaux 8:52

Minds wrapped around the challenge. It's not such a big boogeyman or whatever. And now we're like looking at what's possible, how to literally shape the future. And one of my favorite quotes is the best way to predict the future is to actually create it. And so I feel like you did that with the silver tsunami. Just so can you take that from there? Um, because you you admonished me in a wonderful way, actually, in a good coaching way. Like, why do you call it the silver tsunami? So, do you want to talk about that?

Marketing As A Leadership Function

Marcus R. Escobedo 9:19

Happy to, happy to. And I'm like a communications professional, so yes, I love it. Then I and I have to say, I mean, we used to use the silver tsunami at the Johnny Hartford Foundation, and and as a comms guy, part of my comms brain really loves it, right? It's alliterative, it's visual, it paints a picture that sticks with you when you think about this this silver tsunami. Um, and as a comms professional, we think about well, what does uh our language and our and our words do with our audience in terms of um triggering or bringing forward particular mindsets, particular um viewpoints, particular frames that they put around different social issues. And as you just said, and I asked that question, why why do we use the silver tsunami? And you know, what is that, what what is that, what does that mean for you? What does it picture for you when you and you just said it, you said a silver tsunami, you know, a silver tsunami, what is that? It is this massive wave that is coming towards you, and what is it going to do? It's gonna leave a wake of destruction and devastation, complete annihilation, uh horrible, right? It just is oh my gosh. And then you layer on to that, what do you do about a tsunami? Nothing. You you you can't stop it. So you you run, you run away from it, or maybe you put your head in the sand and hope for the best. Um, and so you if we think about that framing uh of a tsunami of older adults and how it uh leads to and links to what you just alluded to, which is our already negative views of older adults, particularly in this country where youth is valued, older adults and aging are not valued. Um, and therefore it reinforces this notion that older adults are a problem, that this is a massive problem because of this huge cohort of baby boomers that are coming through our demographic pipeline, and that there's nothing we can do about it. So we think that there is a way to talk about this demographic shift that doesn't prompt that negative view of older adults and that fatalism that nothing can be done about um uh this opportunity that we have uh with older adults contributing to our society in really valuable, vital ways, and that we we can really, like you just said, um think about opportunities to harness the growing number of older adults in our world. And so we love talking about um how we can reframe that notion of the silver tsunami. And there's many other ways that we can reframe how we talk about aging. Uh, it really does matter to our audiences, to our customers, our clients, our patients, um, and can really shift society in big ways to help us meet this demographic shift that we are experiencing.

Chris Comeaux 12:00

I so love where you're I love where you're going with this. Um, you know, one of the things that occurred to me, one of our groups out of those future councils um adopted the Chinese symbol, which is crisis opportunity. And every challenge, there is this amazing opportunity. And again, just in a few interactions, you have first off made me check my language because actually I'm very big on language. Uh my mentor was Stephen Kovey's mentor, and he would actually say, His name was Dr. Lee Thayer, we create the worlds that we exist in based on the language that we use. So, and you would you would smile, Marcus. He won a lifetime achievement award in communication, as you can imagine. And so I've seen this shift in in our future accounts, and you just did it for me. It's like, this is a huge opportunity.

Dave Mastovich 12:50

Real marketing is systematically gathering insights from your customers. And your customers include employees, referral sources, strategic partners, and then the ultimate customer.

Chris Comeaux 13:03

Because Teleios Collaborative Network is nonprofit hospices. They get very frustrated with one of some of the for-profits, if you will. And what's occurring to me is they're kind of putting lipstick on a pig. They may have slick marketing, but is that marketing really reflective of what's kind of behind the veil, if you will? You argue that marketing should be a leadership function, not a support service. But this is where I feel the most incompetent, Dave, just in full transparency. I feel like I've felt over the years it's like some voodoo. Like I don't get it. I don't understand it. But just in my relationship with you and then me trying to write that chapter on um message into the community, I feel like I understand it better now. But I see where people do exactly what you're poking on your book. Oh, that's a support service. That's their job. So, what does it look like when marketing becomes, what would we call it, an organization-wide competency? Would that be a good way to frame it?

Hospice At An Inflection Point

Dave Mastovich 13:51

Well, it's it's a leadership function that drives revenue and culture, not by itself, but it drives revenue and culture. And so when you have a leader that understands that, and there's the cliche ones. So take the cliche ones, Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs is a marketer, and that's what enabled Apple to grow one of the things. They also had tremendous innovation. But Steve Jobs, uh, at UPMC, where I was, we had a person at the top that was a marketer. And so when there are leaders at the top, those organizations flat out dominate. Marketing is an efficiency function, Chris. And there are very few efficiency functions in the organization. It's another reason why leaders get frustrated with marketing, because sales is an efficiency function. Marketing is an effectiveness function. Sales is an efficiency function that it's tactical. Marketing is an effectiveness function that it's strategic first. Operations is absolutely an efficiency function.

Chris Comeaux 14:50

Stephen Covey in a coaching session, and a guy was having marital problems, and he looked at the guy and it was a very direct comment, which kind of was out of characteristic for Covey, and he said, You're in the quick fix, aren't you? And the guy's like, What are you talking about? Like some of these issues you're poking on, there's some fundamental things that aren't even in place. And I think that's kind of what you're poking on. People like, just want you to fix my logo, just want you to fix my website, which is much more transactional, but to match that strategic with then let those tactical things execute in line with where are you trying to go? I can't I'm seeing again, bells are going off.

Dave Mastovich 15:23

It is the road less traveled. Our strategy is authenticity. And I said, Well, then you're not authentic. Because if you say, it's like in the old days when you'd say, when you were young, you'd say, if you have to say you're cool, you're not cool. So if you have to say you're authentic, you're not authentic. You just aren't. I believe all of us, when we're around our closest friends and family, are good storytellers. Some are just fantastic, but all of us are good. Yet when we get in the workplace, we suddenly become and we talk, and that's part of not being authentic. I think in healthcare, more hands get involved with storytelling and marketing than any other industry. And that's a recipe for disaster. I tell people when you get me writing something for you, I'm choosing words based on science, based on the science of what that word is going to trigger in someone. And I do it with the best intentions. I write on the whiteboard, I say non-negotiable phrases that won't be used. It's state-of-the-art technology. It's expected in the United States, don't say it. Compassionate care. So the guy up the street's gonna go, hey, we provide you care. It's not compassionate, but we get you care. There's no one out there that doesn't believe they're given compassionate care. Let's let's be completely transparent and vulnerable. Because we as a team are human, there's times we don't realize it and we were off the mark. So sometimes it's us. Um, other times it is that the client doesn't choose the ones that we do. A lot of times people think that simple is bad when simple is best. Ambiguity breeds mediocrity, clarity drives growth. Now you're a marketer and you're a leader who's thinking of marketing as an effectiveness function that can drive culture and growth.

Dr Ira Byock 17:11

I have been um losing sleep, frankly, literally, over the the state of this field that I love so very much. Uh both particularly hospice care, which we'll probably spend most time talking about, but also um palliative care. But in order to get to solutions, we have to get past denial and begin to realize that some segment of this field that we love is ill and needs strong medicine. We've invented a model or developed a model that works brilliantly. It's darn near magical when it works well. A well-staffed, highly functioning hospice and also palliative care program is really remarkable in its power to turn things around for a family.

Leading Multi-Service Care Organizations

Chris Comeaux 17:59

Every great cause began in a movement, began as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket. Now, that's very poignant and very maybe overstated, right? I do not believe the hospice field has become a racket, but unfortunately, there is a segment and there's some icky things, and you call it out in your in your white paper.

Dr Ira Byock 18:21

The boundaries of collegiality need to stop at criminality or patient harm. We are the people who know who else, what other companies in our community are disserving seriously ill patients and their families, the most vulnerable patients in our health care system. What distinguishes our field is that we do all of that and then we listen and try to discern what would be left undone in this patient or family's life, what's left to celebrate, what would give them some joy. I don't know of another specialty that does that. We it it's often not talked about because it's so embedded within the culture of our discipline that we don't even recognize it. But it is the distinguishing feature.

Chris Comeaux 19:18

When I first came in as a CEO, I was young, I was 30 years old, and that adage of nurses eat their young. And I felt like I've got no cred with these nurses. So I started working on my master's of gerontology, and it was a fascinating time to be in gerontology because you had the anti-aging pill and healthy aging. So you saw two converging rivers. Well, long story short, I wrote a paper about uh, and I the title of the paper is What did Victor Frankel and Curly from City Slickers have in common? And if you remember that movie where Curly said, you got to figure out the one thing. And I basically said this in the paper if you tell people they're gonna live forever via a pill, you remove all necessity that you're a finite human being, and cause and purpose will go away.

Dr Ira Byock 20:00

Human potential for well being in the midst of this the tragedy of uh life-limiting illness. And I don't use the term good death. I I I talk about people dying well.

Chris Comeaux 20:15

And it is special, and it is our time to be part of the solution. Um the other maybe quote that haunts me is what you permit, you promote. Then your your lexicon of levels of work is a whole body of knowledge, and very few people know what you're poking on. And one of the things I picked up from him is because I'm I always like I love language painting the picture, but when I paint the picture big picture, you have to speak it a different way depending upon the level of the organization, which is why every organization we have communication issues. It's almost like you have to translate. And I so your answer is brilliant on a whole different level. And Tom Foster is one of the few people I ever heard talk about that. And he's it's a funny way he talks about he goes, You talk about your big picture, but then the staff is like, what the hell is he talking about? And you have to translate in a way that's the language that they understand on a day-to-day basis. So, Mark, I'd love to hear your final thoughts as well.

Bold Policy Prescriptions With Rita Numerof

Mark Jarman-Howe 21:10

Yeah, so just pick up on the innovation point quickly. I think um, because we don't tend to talk about uh innovation, although I think we are an innovative organization. Uh, I should have said our values are bold, passionate, and caring. And it's our passion to provide amazing caring that enables us and encourages us to be bold. So when we talk about being innovative, what we talk is let's be bold. Um, and I think this the sort of that is grounded in the fact that hospice is both special and also hugely transferable. So, you know, all of the things that make hospice care special are relevant to bigger issues within our healthcare system and bigger social issues and problems that people face around looking at not just the individual but their family, about thinking about what's important to individuals and what might be right for one individual isn't right for another, about thinking about the value of home-based and community-based care as opposed to the expense of hospital care, which often doesn't deliver the same outcomes and the same experience at end-of-life care. So there's there's a specialness in the personalization, the holistic approach, the coordination, uh, the focus on the family, the focus beyond just the medical condition that hospice brings, that wider population of people living with frailty, living with dementia, living with progressive illness would benefit from being able to access. And equally, there are the sort of the skills, the principles, and the business case to apply those hospice principles on a bigger scale and to benefit the health economics and the outcomes for a population on a bigger scale. So I think my advice would be don't be afraid to be bold and brave. If you're in hospice care, you're in a great starting point to have impact at an even bigger scale, which will be great for you know reinforcing uh the sustainability and the reach of your hospice program. But actually, your hospice program could be doing so much more good uh for your communities as well if you embrace that. So I think there's great opportunity there. Um, I think in terms of advice, I think just uh don't lose sight of not just thinking about the clinical side of what you do, but the opportunity to integrate uh the philanthropy and the community relationships and the public health approach and you know the engagement type activities that Rebecca was giving a great example of. You know, that is just as important as what you're doing on the clinical side, and they are entirely complementary, they don't have to be at odds. And the more you embrace that um positive relationship between them, the stronger your overall programs and your reach will be.

Rebecca Ramsay 23:52

I want to be the place that healthcare um healthcare workers in our community come to because they recognize like this is a place where I can I can breathe, I can do the work that really matters to me, I can continue to stay inspired. Um, and you know, having the multiple service lines actually does benefit employee resilience because we have many examples of hospice nurses who have decided that, you know, I'm I'm a little tired. Um and and you know, hospice work is it's really challenging, and you're dealing with a lot of loss.

Chris Comeaux 24:34

I'm optimistic too, and I heard something last night. Um, I won't get too far afield in this, I promise, but uh the whole cracker barrel fiasco that's going on right now. I did not realize though, actually, that there are a lot of people on the left and the right that both were vocal. Like Gavin Newsom said, I hate the new logo, and so did many people on the right as well. And when we agree on something these days in the country, I tend to take notice of it. And it interesting, it got reversed. And so I think a lot of the things that you've enumerated, there are a lot of people that agree with this. Um, there were things I was seeing as the new administration was coming in that maybe probably start to shape my viewpoint of, hey, they get this. A lot of this stuff is broken. Like for instance, I had some friends who start to say last year, well, you know, we're about ready to go into Trump 2.0 lay it to healthcare. And I said, not so fast, mister. They're seeing some things about PBMs and things about the insurance companies. They're not going to double down and just say, yeah, we're on the MA train and that's what's take that's the solution to the future. And I start to see that to prove out this year. So I feel like there's a lot of um agreement that some of these things are just broken. And you know, you've had you've got the historical reference to go, it's been broken for a long time. Right.

Rita Numerof 25:48

But nobody fixes things until, unless and until it's gotten so bad that they recognize that it's not sustainable. And at the same time, there are green shoots of alternatives that are cropping up that suggest that there are um some pretty fundamental opportunities. But you gotta be bold, you gotta be willing to be able to establish this is the vision of where things need to be.

Chris Comeaux 26:20

Well, let's go there, Rita. Let's be bold.

Sponsor Thanks And Closing

Rita Numerof 26:23

Okay. So um so if I had the honor of um being called in by RFK Jr. and and Dr. Oz, um I do have a prescription about what I think we should do as a nation to be able to write this ship and get it back on the right track. We have incredible ingenuity in this country, we have incredible resources, and once upon a time, we had the healthcare system that was the envy of the whole world. We're not there now, but we can get back on track. So the first thing that I start with is that vision of an alternative model. You can't fix things unless you know what it is you're working towards and what's broken. So the vision of an alternative model has to be one from my perspective that's grounded in a really good understanding of what's wrong, not at the micro level, not individual little pieces, but understanding that whole tapestry and how things fit together. And it it was the mid-1980s when a lot of this um uh began going really off track, well intended, but it was something I had predicted was going to lead to a problem. So CMS introduced DRGs to bend the proverbial cost curve. It was a bad policy. It was a bad policy then, it's a bad policy today, and we've spent a ton of time and effort trying to fix it as well as a lot of money, adding new things to it. But if the fundamentals are wrong, it's gonna go down under its own weight. And I think that's where we are. At the time, I said that it's gonna fail because we don't have transparency in either cost or quality. We failed then to require accountability for outcomes across the continuum of care.

Chris Comeaux 28:31

Cronkite quote that later was also attributed to Don Berwick, and I have re-engineered it. America's healthcare system is neither healthy, caring, nor a system. And here's my part. Let's make it so.

Dragonfly Health Ad 29:19

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